February 25, 2005

Fisk 2

After haveing read the Cluebatâ„¢ being laid upside the head of a moonbat in the post below, I thought I would again try my own hand with one of my own commenters....I didn't do as good a job, but still, it was cathartic.

"I had to put on my tinfoil hat reading your analysis of the world and
incessant insults about how we progressives don't live in the real world"

Glad to see you admit to having your own TFH, thats the first step to recovery.
Those weren't insults, merely observations borne out time and again by reality.

"then again, it was you people who said 9/11 and iraq were related and
it turns out that every senior counterterrorist expert said that was a
stretch and it was never fully vetted"

Salmon Pak shows the fallacy of that statement. I never made a claim that Saddam had any part in the planning of 9/11, in fact, I'm sure he didn't, but that there were ongoing connections of training facilities and money paid to terrorist organizations there was never any doubt. Saddam was the main backer for the payments to the families of suicide bombers of Hamas.

"you said he had WMDs"

He did, and he used them. He failed to account for their destruction as required by the terms of the cease fire of GW 1. It's possible that the large amount of truck traffic between Iraq and Syria may account for not finding some of those weapons. Saddam had 12 years to hide them, or transport them into any of the countries around Iraq. We may never know.

"not one iota of evidence has ever survived scrutiny beyond your talking
points memos and bullshit repeats of Bush administration exagerations"

Yet you will believe OBVIOUSLY falsified documents as proof over vetted documented records as "proof" of Bush being an "AWOL" Pot, meet kettle.

"you guys said it would cost us $12 to $30 billion at the most and we
would be drawing down troops by september 2003"

Funny, thats the first I've heard those claims...The only thing I ever heard President Bush say was that it would cost what it would cost, and that we would stay until the job was done.
The FIRST formal budget request to Congress was for $87B....as memory serves...kinda blows that $12 to $30 B figure out of the water doesn't it?

"instead we are caught in a sandpit that has cost us upwards of $300
billion and the cost of twelve wounded and three dead americans a day"

The cost is indeed staggering, both in treasure and, even more importantly, in lives. But I believe that history will judge it as being something that had to be done.

"you said the tax cuts would creat jobs"

A gratuitious statement may be gratuitiously denied. The tax cuts have done more to help stabilize the economy than any other actions could have. I DO believe that President Bush has been severly remiss in not cutting spending to a far greater extant also. Hopefully, that will be a feature of his second term, although I'm not at all sanguine that it will be.

"we are STILL minus 500,000 jobs in the hole"

Check the latest figures from the BLS. We have reached the point where we now have 1,500 MORE jobs than when President Clinton left office...considering a recession that started in the last two quarters of President Clintons last term, and the major hit to the economy attendant on 9/11, thats not that bad.

"our allies have abandoned us,"

Yeah, France, Russia, and Germany...who have been revealed to have been reaping millions in under the table oil deals with Saddam.

With "allies" like that, we don't really need any enemies, do we?

England,Japan,the Netherlands, Poland, Romania, etc, etc (even TOGO) have a contigent in the coallition. I guess we know who are TRUE allies are now, don't we?

"oil is $45 a barrel"

Wait a minute, I thought the war was all about "stealing the oil" (disregarding the fact that had we wished cheap oil, Saddam would have been more than happy to sell it to us in return for our looking the other way) If the war was about stealing the oil, WHERE IS IT? The facts show another example of Leftist "truth" being a false meme. WE have no control over the price of oil, OPEC is the major player in that game, so if you don't like the price, go bitch at them.

"over 3 million more Americans have joined the poverty list since Bush
has been in power"

Source please? Much of that figure is due to a change in the way the poverty level is indexed, not as a result of that many people actually experiencing a change in their way of life or gross income. The MIDDLE class in France lives under conditions that WE consider poverty level.

"The US last year ranked 42nd in the world in infant mortality, right
behind Cuba"

Wait a minute, I thought it was a Progressive tenant that Cuba was a workers paradise with the best health care in the world? Which is it? If they were worse, they aren't the best are they? As far as the US figures go, they are a little misleading. We have a far greater number of high risk pregnancies which go to term and the highest number of high risk premies born here than anywhere else in the world, and would not be counted in the infant mortality rates in other countries...those babies would never have made it anywhere near to term anywhere else in the world. But the attendant risks that go along with such "miracle" babies are higher than the norm and artificially inflate the US numbers; it's comparing apples and pears.

"(BTW thanks for telling us the project for New American century plan
for attacking everyone who has oil.)"

Your own conspiracy theories are coming out in that statement...

"at the end of the day, none of this combat has achieved a godamned
thing but kills tens of thousands"

No, it has freed two countries from under the rule of homicidal tyrants and given them a chance at a freedom never known in the region before. As Robert Heinlein once said, "Freedom is the one human "right" that is seldom cheap and never free".

"my guess is- you have never lived outside the US. You have a high
school education- you listen to Rush and Faux News"

Didn't bother to look at my banner did you? And you accuse ME of making fallacious arguments about prograssives not living in the real world? I have been in 38 states and 7 different countries, lived in the Netherlands for 3 years and in Germany for almost two. I have 2 years of College but never stayed for a degree, but I would put my general knowledge up against any recent college graduate. They would cream me in the technical areas of their expertise, I HOPE... How about YOUR creds? By the number of typos I corrected in your missive, I do have to wonder. I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, I find him to be too much of a blowhard. And I don't have cable, so I CAN'T watch Fox news.

"You bet, you're a dumb-ass"

Hmmm...Must be that vaunted Progressive tolerance I've heard so much about!

"and you're wrong"

Said the one wearing the Tin Foil Hat...

"by the way, the Netherlands has a higher standard of living than the
US, higher productivity, longer life spans, less poverty and almost one
tenth our crime rate- also, the typical Dutch 7th grader knows more
american history than a US Senior."

BWHAAAAHAAAAAA! I WANT some of what you're smoking! I have a great many family members living in the Netherlands that would certainly get a great laugh out of those statements! The U.S. has the highest productivity rate in the world, the mortality rates are roughly equivilent. You can't compare poverty rates between a socialist and a capitalist system, but believe ME, having lived there, the standard of living is much greater on the average here. Many of the crimes in the Netherland are never even reported, as the populace knows that the likelihood of prosecution is remote, in fact, many times the reported crimes are merely noted and not ever investigated. Education is the one area in which I feel you may be correct. Thanks to the last 20/30 years of the NEA meddling in our public school system.

"What else do you want to be wrong about?"

How about the fact that I thought you might have something credible to contribute?

Posted by Delftsman3 at February 25, 2005 02:46 PM

Slap him Delfts,

I hate to tell the wanker but street crime is a reguler occurnece in Amsterdam.
I have been there 4 out of the past five years and there are all kinds of problems, that the wanker cant concieve of because he has never been there . Except in his hash addled dreams
The Dutch do not go out of there way to publicise street crime ,as it tends to slow down the tourist industry.
I can tell the silly wanker that there are alot of young ,angry ,Unassimilated Muslims who do not send out the welcome wagon.
The TheoVan Gogh killings are the tip of the Iceberg

Posted by: NeilV at February 25, 2005 05:20 PM

Great job Delfts, This individual should be getting his facts from sources other than the Ward Churchill's of this country or from the big three media outlets. If this country is so bad why haven't those angry Hollywood types, Baldwin, Et, Al., that so put down this country by claiming they'll leave over the Bush administration being in control, left this country? They have the means to do so. Emulating Europe might be good from the aspect of stemming immigration to the U.S., there are an awful lot of the world's population that still believe in the United States.

Posted by: Jack at February 25, 2005 07:32 PM


I'm from The Netherlands, and I've been a teacher for a couple of years. Don't know what your source of information is as far as Dutch education is concerned, but having been on the inside, it's not looking good.

There used to be clearly separated levels of schooling, but that has been changed to a more 'egalitarian' model.

Especially in what the Dutch call 'voortgezet onderwijs', education for 12 to 16-18 year olds, this has had disastrous results.

It's a much too long story to type here, but check with your relatives in The Netherlands, see what they come up with. I'd be very surprised if you can find someone who's actually glad with the developments in our educational system over the past two decades.

Posted by: sered at February 26, 2005 10:22 PM

We do have our fun don't we? :)
Good cluebat job there Delftsman.

Posted by: Dave S. at February 28, 2005 05:21 PM
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