Delftsman

Too bad the anti-Second Amendment people wil never acknowledge any of it.

RWR

The left never admits when they are wrong.Those tabulations apply to New Zealand, England, Canada and most of "free" Europe as well, it never gets the press coverage, 'cause the gummint controls the press.

Yeah, because America today is exactly like Nazi Germany...

Even if we did live in the whacko fantasy land where the US government wants to pull a holocaust on its own people, it's not like a couple red necks with concealed handguns are going to be able to stop anything. That Colt .45 may make you feel like a big man, but it's not going to do you much good when you're looking down the barrel of an Abrams or being carpet bombed from 30,000 feet.

Why is it that the Patriot Act doesn't bother you one bit but having to register your little peashooters causes you to invoke Hitler? Are you that much of a partisan hack that you only see injustice from one party but not the other?

You make a large presumption, Dora. This was a post about gun control, just how do get you get from that I don't have severe reservations about the Patriot Act? Thats a discussion for another post.

The fact is that in EVERY case where gun control has been instituted, the end result has been confiscation, thus making the people unable to protect themselves. In essence, making them the wards of the state. I prefer to be ultimately responsible for my own protection, thank you.

As far as your assertion that "That Colt .45 may make you feel like a big man, but it's not going to do you much good when you're looking down the barrel of an Abrams or being carpet bombed from 30,000 feet."

Of course my handguns, nor my long guns for that matter, won't be very effective agains't an army, thats not the point. Add my gun to thousands of other people that would rebel against a tyranical turn of government, and it will give even the Army pause to consider whether or not this is a fight that should be fought. You have obviosly never been in the military...The oath you take is to protect the Republic against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC; that oath is to the PEOPLE of the Republic, not to any particular government. If the government oversteps it's bounds, it's the DUTY of the soldier, and the people to see that it's not allowed to continue. But even that wasn't the main thrust of this particular post. In any case, even in your supposition, you were incorrect; there was an example in early WWll where a Jewish ghetto held off almost an entire division of the Wermacht for a considerable period of time with just a few hidden weapons. IF the average citizens had been armed, Hitler may not have been able to accomplish all the evil that he did.

It's the issue of personal responsibility for one's own self defense that matters the most here. As has been demonstrated by the Australian example, AND the British example, AND the Canadian example, when gun control gains a foothold, it ultimately leads to consfiscation, and thus to higher violent crime rates.

It sounds trite, but the saying that "when guns are outlawed, only criminals will have guns" is really a truism, as demonstrated by the above examples.

America today is far from Nazi Germany, and I wish it to remain so. The private ownership of weapons is just one final insurance policy against that ever occurring.

Not to mention the little fact that it is one of the RIGHTS guarenteed in our Constitution for a very good reason. It is the Second Amendment that guarentees all of the other Amendments in the final extreme. It is the last resort, but the only one that matters in the end.

I think in the final analysis, our differing views are between those that wish to remain CITIZENS of a free Republic and those that would become SUBJECTS of an all-powerful State.

May your chains lay lightly upon you if your view prevails. I'll not have survived to wear them.

My problem with the situation in Florida is that in order to change these laws, there has to have been an unconstitutional law in place to begin with.

Why didn't the Florida legislatures simply repeal the offending law? THAT is the injustice that's being done here.

Just a thought.

RWR

It was a bit of an assumption to link you with the Patriot Act, but since you made that long post but didn't once state your opposition to try tyranny then I guess I am proven right. That's the thing about conservatives, they may have only one or two issues that they really care about, but they will slavishly defend anything the RNC leadership does no matter how silly or contrary to their own self-interests, all in the name of blind loyalty. Your posts aren't about gun control, they're about tyranny and your irrational fear of Nazi. If you were truly against tyranny, you would be fighting things like the Patriot Act tooth and nail. How does owning a gun make you more freedom loving when you don't complain about AMERICAN CITIZENS being detained indefinitely without charge? How can you be against tyranny when you don't fight against the government being able to enter your home with no pretext? Is not the right to a speedy trial by one's peers and the right to be protected from unreasonable searches and seizures guaranteed in the Constitution, or did you fall asleep after reading the first two amendments?

I also find it funny that you talk about short-term percentage changes in certain kinds of crime and then claim they are somehow related to long-term gun control laws, yet you have provided no connection whatsoever. Need I remind you about correlation and causation? I also find it funny that you refuse to list per capita numbers, like per capita murders and gun deaths. You probably didn't do that because despite the small short-term increases of crime in some other countries, the US still has wildly more crime than any of these countries. You didn't mention that all of Canada has fewer deaths per year than just the city of Chicago. You don't mention that the gun murder rate in the US is roughly 11 times higher than that of all other industrialized countries combined. I don't even support most forms of gun control, but I'm not going to sit here while you cherry-pick misleading stats. Funny how the picture changes when you look at the whole thing.

If the Jews had some guns, they still would have been annihilated, it just would have given Hitler more pretext. The Warsaw ghetto revolt was only as successful as it was because it came at the end of the war, because the Jews knew what was in store for them, and with most of Hitlers best or even mediocre troops either dead or on the Eastern front with the Russians closing in. And still, that was just one division, Hitler had hundreds of divisions, Stalin hundreds more. Had the Jews tried that in 1934 or 1939, they'd have been crushed in short order and used in Nazi propaganda as justification for Nazi oppression. I know you have this superhero complex, but in real life, having a gun does not turn you into Rambo. When you come up against a powerful force that wants you dead, it merely delays your death by a few moments. The real way to stop oppression is to fight it politically *before* it gets established. This means fighting against things like the Patriot Act and the slow erosion of our rights in the name of the war on some drugs.

"The left never admits when they are wrong.Those tabulations apply to New Zealand, England, Canada"

May years back I remember reading a major study that had been done comparing Vancouver and Seattle (since these have roughly similar ethnic mixes and culture). The study found that Vancouver had an extremely low incidence of murder compared to Seattle. The only meaningful difference between the two was Canadian gun control and regulation.