June 01, 2005

Response to a Moonbat

One of my favorite Moonbats responded to my "quote of the day" post with the following insightful historical/political reasoning:

What a quote! If this were the case, the Nazi's should have been the free-est people in the world. Apart from the oft-mentioned Nazis, I don't know of anywhere in the world where this has been true. Burma is full of soldiers and it's hardly free. South Korea obtained elections only after numerous occasions in which soldiers (supported by U.S. complicity) massacred student protesters. What could you possibly be thinking when you wrote this, Deftsman? The people you constantly vilify are also "soldiers" (albeit, of a different stripe.)

Riiiight Karlo...just tell me ANY progress that have been engendered by those "soldiers of a different stripe" you put up as your heroes...Lets see...

Affirmative Action? nope, those programs have arguably set back race relations 20 years by creating a divisive atmosphere, where even those that succeed by their own merits are seen to have benefitted by a condescending attitude of "you made it because we let you".

Progressive Education? What a joke! we have the highest drop-out rates in history, with the lowest academic achievment ever,even among those that do graduate. Oh, they can spout memes of "evil conservative" and "power to the poor"...too bad that they can't read the diploma that says that they're "educated". They do have great self-esteem..about WHAT, I have no idea. These are the same graduates that look on no increase in funding of their pet social projects as a CUT in funding.

Social Progessivism...there is an old saying that "you get what you pay for(subsedize)" The social welfare programs have certainly proved that. Progressives blame evil corporations and brutal government...yet, since the "Great Society" programs of Lyndon Johnson, we as a society have spent ever increasing amounts of money to support the poor, with the result of having MORE poor.

Protest Immoral War....Lets see...they have "die ins" tying up the normal conduct of business of the inhabitants of the cities where they occur; they have puke fests on city hall steps and wonder why no one is listening to them (after all they DO have such high self-esteem!) Meanwhile, all their protests serve to do is encourage those working against us, and prolonging the war itself.

On to the gist of your contention that soldiers don't guarantee our rights by exemplifying instances of a conjunction of large groups of soldiers and tyrrany:

The fact is that armies in and of themselves are only tools of the governing regime. A tyrranical regime uses the army to bolster its own sick hold on power. In a free society, that same army guarantees that it remains free.

The freedoms we enjoy were wrested by dint of force of arms. Or I suppose you believe all we really needed to have done was puke on the steps of the Governors Residence, and the British crown would have seen the error of it's ways?

All we need have done was protest how racist we were against the indigenous peoples of Hawaii, and the Japanese would never have bombed Pearl Harbor?
I'm SURE that Hitler was amenable to calm and rational protests against his actions, and WW11 could have been avoided if only those with calmer heads had just said "we'll talk to Chancellor Hitler"

The REALITY is that we live in a world where, in the end, force can and does prevail. The basic moral attitude and sensibilities backing those forces make the difference whether they are used for good or ill.

Posted by Delftsman3 at June 1, 2005 10:38 PM

In your rebuttal of my comment, you suggest that it's soldiers in the service of virtuous regimes that gaurantee our rights; however the quote cited in your original post is clear: reporters, poets, campus organizers and the like have nothing to do with "bringing us freedom." If this is the case, how do you respond to the case of South Korea. Clearly, corrupt southern regimes (everything up through Roh Taewoo) were supported by the military. No military (South Korean or American) stepped in to "bring freedom" to the people. It was students, reporters, and who knows--perhaps a few jailed poets who protested, and were jailed. Most people would agree that there are just causes but your constant glorification of the military over other sectors of society undermines notions of democracy. Violence, especially violence by the powerful (which America has been for virtually all of its history), is often easy. Governments all over the world have often turned to jingoistic military campaigns and praise of martial virtues to cover up infringements on democratic rights. Democracy, fairness, wisdom, integrity, and equality are difficult and time-consuming--virtues that aren't acquired during a two month boot-camp.

Posted by: Karlo at June 2, 2005 02:11 AM

"Democracy, fairness, wisdom, integrity, and equality are difficult and time-consuming--virtues that aren't acquired during a two month

Mmm.... seems that they are too hard to instill into a four year Marxist indoctrination college education too.

Integrity and equality are only two of the virtues that are, INDEED, instilled in a two month boot camp, along with the concepts of Honor, Pride, and Duty.

Democracy is somewhat lacking in the military menu...their job is to defend it, but they have to give up some of the personal receipt of it as they do.

Fairness? that term has been so twisted in the modern progressive lexicon so as to have become meaningless.

You make more money than I do, yet I believe that we are equally intelligent;I've worked hard all my life (and for the sake of this argument, I'll assume without proof that you have too),so is THAT fair? In my lexicon it is, in yours it isn't....So, when can I expect to receive my first check from you in the interest of making my life more fair? (that would be a personal wealth redistribution program...PUT YOUR money where your rhetoric is!)that is exactly what almost every program your so enamored of does in the public arena. IF you won't do it privately, just WHY should we make it public policy?

Wisdom only comes through experience, no matter what course you chart. Unfortunatly, many of your fellow travelers will never gain wisdom, as they refuse to learn from their experiences IE,they repeat the same errors over and over again and expect a different result each time.

And your constant referal to other countrys militaries and equating them to ours is just a straw man. THeir army serves the Regime, OURS serves the Constitution. It is unique in that fact.
Ours is the only army predicated on preserving "rights" and "freedom". That is it's greatest strength and it's greatest weakness. It serves the civilian master and is accountable to the civilian master, it is almost unique in that aspect too. The Left is constantly equating Iraq with Viet Nam. And it is only true insofar as the MSM and the Left are (trying to)bring defeat out of the jaws of victory. Pretty funny that we had not a single military defeat in Viet Nam, yet were forced to concede the field because of misinformed public opinion. The master spoke and the military obeyed, even though the master was an idiot.

Posted by: delftsman at June 2, 2005 03:10 AM

Delftsman, the schwerpunkt here is obvious, what system existed that allowed this peaceful transition from despotism to representative democracy in S. Korea? How was this system created? By poets speaking truth to power, or by professionalism in the military leading to a peaceful shift of power?
Then there's the very obvious case of TUrkey: where it's only the military there that keeps the nation from essentially returning to Caliphate rule.
We can all sit here and cherry pick historical examples all we want. Doesn't change the fact that the world's a violent place and without centurions(and what makes a centurion vice a hired thug--this is fertile ground delftsman and you know the answers) on the frontier our values can be plowed under.

Posted by: ry at June 2, 2005 05:02 AM

"Fairness? that term has been so twisted in the modern progressive lexicon so as to have become meaningless."

It isn't a meaningless word (although many wish it didn't exist.) Even in conservative rhetoric (if not practice), fairness is often discussed (e.g., the idea that hand-outs to the lazy isn't "fair" since it takes money from hard-working people.)

"You make more money than I do."

I find this unlikely. I make about 50 a year and have a couple thousand in retirement saved up. I've never accepted a single dime in welfare or unemployment (even during the many times I was eligible.)

"And your constant referal to other countrys militaries and equating them to ours is just a straw man. THeir army serves the Regime, OURS serves the Constitution."

Right now our military is arresting U.S. citizens and imprisoning them without a trial. What Constitution are they defending? Someone could arrest you tomorrow, hall your ass off to Diego Garcia, and shoot you through the head, if someone in the military thought you were a terrorist. They wouldn't have to justify their actions to anybody because nobody would have to know. Evidently, this doesn't trouble you at all. You place your trust in people and leadership. I say leadership and military virtues are for monarchies, fascist regimes, and the mafia. Democracies are made of more mundane materials.

Posted by: Karlo at June 2, 2005 03:32 PM
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