Delftsman

The Fair Tax isn't fair, and it's still a tax.

If it were any better than the mess it is replacing, I'd be all for it.

But, it's at a higher tax rate than the income tax, and is hidden better.

Come up with a tax that is fair in more than just name, and I'll be for it. Until then, don't be so fired up about this one. It isn't fair, and it's still a tax.

RJ, there will ALWAYS be a tax of some sort, to think there won't be is just unrealistic.

What can be more fair than a consumption tax?
The Fair Tax does have it's problems, but overall, it's MUCH beter than we have now.

Hidden? What we have NOW is hidden, the FT is the most open tax possible, it's printed on every sales receipt you'll get. The fact is that the "corporate tax" shill is the most hidden tax there is...Corp.'s DON'T pay taxes, their customers do.

Just HOW is the FT "hidden"? and that "higher" rate argument is a fallacy, because you are comparing an embedded tax with an IMbedded tax, and they are totally different. If you want to talk about "hidden" taxes, start figuring out just how much you are paying in taxes on all the goods and services you are now utilyzing and THEN talk about "hidden taxes" not to mention the "hidden" cost of compliance your now paying for.

Dman,

I already *have* figured all of those things out.

The reason it is at a higher rate is because a 5-7% consumption, or sales, tax accomplishes the same goal. 23% (or 30%...the actual rate is still rather hidden) is a confiscatory rate. In fact, that's a higher tax RATE than I currently pay.

Every tax equation that I've seen used is a "zero-sum" equation. NO economy in the world is a "zero-sum" economy. Lower tax rates bring in higher revenue, unless the tax code is being designed to get as close to zero economic growth as possible.

The Fair Tax is a good idea gone horribly wrong. But, since I do not trust politicians with anything more strenuous than talking pretty, I don't have a problem admitting that.

"In fact, that's a higher tax RATE than I currently pay."

You believe that it's higher than what you are paying currently because most of the taxes you are paying currently are hidden as being "corporate" or "business" taxes. The fact is that YOU are paying those taxes, include what you pay in those, and you'll find that you are currently spending 50% or more of your earnings in taxes.

You know I share your mistrust in polititions, and I don't believe that the Fair Tax is the be all and the end all; it's merely a good first step. Once the people start realizing just what they are paying, I hope that they wake up enough to start taking control back from the polititions and then maybe we can start to see reductions in tax to that 5-7% level. The proposed level is to bring in revenues equal to the curent levels, which I agree are confiscatory. But it took us 60 years to reach this point a step at a time, and we have to take it one step at a time to reduce it.

Dman,

The 5-7% rate is what it would take to generate a "revenue neutral" budget, not 23%.

This "Fair Tax" crap is a tax INCREASE, not a tax cut, or even tax-neutral. It's a tax hike, plain and simple. The tax rate is set so that a person has NO choice in how much they save. THAT is what they are basing the 23% tax rate on.

Trust me, Dman, I know FAR more about taxes than you do. That comes from taking quite a bit of business, accounting, and basic math classes as a teenager. I've taught quite a few tax lawyers and accountants things they didn't know about taxes, simply because I did the math they were too lazy to do.

I don't have exact numbers handy, nor do I have to. Just a simple equation or two shows that a 5 to 7% tax rate will generate the exact same amount of revenue as the current theft scheme. The "Fair Tax" Lie "cuts" taxes to FOUR TIMES the rate they need to be, to be revenue neutral.